04/06/2014
It was a surprise when House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers announced last week that he would not seek reelection. After all, he has been a respected voice on national security even on liberal mainstream media and is popular in his Michigan district where he won his last election with 66 percent of the vote.
Apparently Rogers thinks the administration is too weak in combating Americaās al Qaeda enemies.
Does Rogers think he can bring attention to national security matters with a radio show more effectively than by being the top intelligence Congressman? He hinted as much when he sat down for an interview with Time magazine recently:
Mike Rogers Says Obama Has Gone āKinder, Gentlerā Against al-Qaeda, Time, April 3, 2014
The retiring House Intelligence Committee chief tells TIME that Obama is leaving terrorists āon the battlefield,ā and explains his charge that Edward Snowden is āunder the influenceā of Russiaās security service
TIME: You just held yet another hearing on Benghazi, this one featuring former deputy CIA director Michael Morell. So much has been said about that night already ā did you really take away anything new?
ROGERS: The takeaway is that the CIA had all the relevant information. There was confusion in the day or day after the attack, but it started to gel that this was an al-Qaeda extremist event ā yet the narrative of the Administration never changed.
Isnāt one reason the Benghazi debate never ends that people disagree about whether itās correct to call it an āal-Qaeda eventā? Even if people with al-Qaeda connections were involved, that doesnāt mean it was planned and organized by core al-Qaeda leaders. Which is what the New York Times reported in December.
That all went out the window today when the deputy director of the CIA said that the reason he removed references to al-Qaeda from the talking points was because they had sources that said al-Qaeda participated in the event, and in their mind they didnāt want to disclose those sources.
We have numerous people that we know participated in the Benghazi attacks affiliated with al-Qaeda that are still on the battlefield. We have the capacity to get them but thereās no planning to get them. We have other serious al-Qaeda threats that normally we would take off the battlefield, but because of this Administrationās more kinder, gentler approach we have not done that.
What do you mean by a ākinder, gentlerā approach? Is that because the pace of drone strikes seems to have slowed?
Iām not allowed to talk about specific programs. But I can tell you that there are ways that we have taken people off the battlefield that have been disruptive to their ability to plan operations, and there are cases where we are no longer doing that.
And if you have serious al-Qaeda players remaining on the battlefield because of bureaucracy created here, thatās a problem. We know from the 9/11 Commission that once nothing happened after the U.S.S. Cole was bombed in 2000, the psychology of that empowered al-Qaeda and led them to do bigger and bolder things. Which led to 9/11.
The old slogan is that Osama bin Laden is dead and General Motors is alive, and that al-Qaeda core is going away. Which is inconsistent with the facts that we know. And it concerns me that it is translated into policy. If you tell everybody that works for you that al-Qaedaās not that big a threat, well, guess what? Their decisions will reflect that.
You get classified briefings. Apart from al-Qaeda, what worries you the most?
Oh, which one? Cyber is the biggest national-security threat Iāve ever seen, one that weāre not prepared to deal with. Disengaging the size and scope of our military has sent a pretty awful message ā it has said to countries they can invade their neighbors without fear of retribution. Radiological material, black-market issues around the world. Iranās interest in getting a nuclear weapon.
How about bioterror? Not everyone thinks itās a serious threat.
I do worry. Itās cheap. Thatās worrisome. I did a biodefense bill to stockpile prophylactics. I still worry about it, because we know itās out there and we know that al-Qaeda has talked about trying to get their hands on it.
You have said that Edward Snowden is āunder the influenceā of Russian officials. What does that mean, exactly? That they house him? Pay him? Recruited him? People say youāre casting aspersions without evidence.
The NSA contractor is definitely under the influence of Russian officials. We know that he was in China, Hong Kong anyway, and in Russia today. We have seen patterns and activities that lead us to believe that some or all of that information is being worked through by those intelligence services and putting the U.S. at risk.
āThe NSA contractorā ā you donāt use his name?
I think people have wrongly given him some elevated status, and he has some kind of an underground rock-star status. Heās a traitor who puts our soldiers lives at risk.
So what exactly does āunder the influenceā of Russian officials mean?
First of all, heās living about a mile from the FSB [Russian security service] facilities. We know he has regular conversations with the FSB. And remember we have a long history of both KGB and FSB operations, we know how they work. The FSB grabbed a guy off the street in Kiev who was involved in the street protests, cut his ear off, drilled a hole in his hand ā all to make him confess that he took money from the Americans to foment problems in Kiev. This wasnāt 1950, it wasnāt 1960, wasnāt 1970. This was this year.
So we see how they get people to cooperate, the kind of tactics that they use. And it is absolutely naive to believe that this guy who we know has been in the custody of intelligence agents of the Russian Federation, who has been housed in the joint facility, who got permission to go to work ā thatās just not happening without their approval.
Youāre saying heās housed in a ājoint facilityā?
No, no, not a joint facility. Heās housed very near an FSB facility. Makes it convenient for everybody.
And remember we have other classified ways as well. Thatās why no counterintelligence official does not believe that today heās under the influence.
But thatās not the debate. The debate is, when did it start? Did it start in 2010 when he was taking classes in India, and made it known ā in a place that is frequented by Russian intelligence officials ā made it very clear that he was working for a U.S. intelligence agency? We donāt know, exactly. The FBI would call that a clue. In the spy business you call that a dangle.
We have other cases, you can go back and look at the history of profiles of someone who did not get along with co-workers, who had employment-history problems. This guy fits the profile to a T. I get worried when people want to think heās something different than he is.
You took over the House Intelligence Committee in January 2011. Is the average American more or less safe today?
Oof. [Pauses.] Again, there are counterterrorism policies that I disagree with that I argue put us in a more dangerous position today. On this committee, I think the oversight is far better, I think the budgeting is far better. We chased partisanship out of the committee.
We engaged in constructive investigations ā the Huawei investigation, for example, where it was darn close that the Chinese government was going to own the pipes through which all our private information traveled within the United States. And that is no longer the case, because of the work of our report. We have moved the country to a better place to be better protected on a whole host of threats.
Will you have more influence as a talk-radio host than you do as a Congressman?
The opportunity is pretty significant. Itās across the country. Itās talking to people every single day to develop a relationship. The kinds of things I was able to do at the committee never get talked about. This notion that if we just hide under our desks, the rest of the world will leave us alone and weāll have a prosperous nation is dangerous. And that perspective is there on both the right and the left.
I think more people will tune in, and weāll have better, more fired-up and productive conservatives at the end of the day.
And if a Republican is elected in 2016, will you return to run the CIA, FBI or Department of Homeland Security?
I never say never. I donāt think Iām done with government service. Weāll see what role it takes.
I look forward to the opportunity to talk to people in Iowa and New Hampshire too, thatād be nice. And of course New Mexico, Michigan and South Carolina. ["Ooo-kay," an aide says warily, ending the interview on schedule. Rogers laughs.]